Those Stupid Swiss


Die Schweiz uber alles!

Guys, I’d expected better of you, thought goodness knows why. I mean, have you Swiss lost your minds? Are your brains as full of holes as the cheese that bears your name?

I’m referring to the recent referendum banning construction of minarets in Switzerland. Apparently the four (4) that currently exist are more than enough, thank you, despite the hundreds of thousands of Muslims that live in the country. What, you people want to alienate and piss them off?

What the hell is wrong with you people? I understand it can be annoying to sit there listening to a loudspeaker blaring away in another language (I live right next to a Hebrew school and frequently hear chanting in Hebrew over their loudspeaker), but the minarets in Switzerland don’t even do the calls to prayer.

There’s no excuse for this. It would be different if you people had passed a law banning all religious buildings (though that would also be bad), but instead you passed something like this horrible thing.

I really expected better of you people.

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19 Responses to “Those Stupid Swiss”

  1. lovebug35 Says:

    I know right..

    Banning Minarets was just downright prejudiced

    • Chris Says:

      I really had expected better, but again, I don’t know why. Can you imagine the hue and cry that would have erupted had the Swiss banned synagogues or churches? But ban minarets and most people seem hunky dory about it.

  2. simplebreath Says:

    This, what we called horouble lack of civilization, and those againts the teaching of christians. to respect and love. so we can stand together side by side without any fear or missunderstood among the citizens of great europe.

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  4. jonolan Says:

    Why is it especially horrible to ban minarets, which are not in any way required for a masjid and no masjid are being banned? I ask because you made that point, that doing so was worse than banning all religious buildings.

    • Chris Says:

      At least banning all religious buildings would be consistent, but this is targeting one minority religion and that’s just not right.

      • Ben Says:

        I don’t live there. Perhaps you don’t either. However, maybe they sense something we can’t.

        I can recall another nation whose populace did little to combat an encroaching ideology which advanced hatred, intolerance and a ridged set of values for others to follow “or else”. It eventually consumed her and led to her destruction.

  5. cherrykitten Says:

    I believe that what they are doing is extrimely wrong. people have to understand that the main purpose of religion is peace in the world but we are still doing evel and harm – all in the mane of our beloved God. They should be not so prejudiced. Hell, one of the most democratic countries of Europe…

    • Ben Says:

      You’re asking the wrong question. It should be; why is one of the most democratic countries in Europe voting for a law to ban minarets? What is it which they are so concerned over which we cannot see from our vantage point?

      One of two things will happen next; the law is struck down or church bell towers will have to be silenced to make the law agnostic to the issue.

  6. Ben Says:

    The banning of the minarets in no way prevents the Muslims from assembling to worship. It doesn’t oppress them.

    The populous voted their will. They don’t wish to hear the call to prayer broadcast over the countryside, that’s all. It’s more of an issue of noise pollution.

    It’s no different than the case of the Arizona church which rang its church bells every hour on the hour from 8am to 8pm.

    The City of Phoenix Prosecutor’s Office charged Rick Painter with 2 counts of a Phoenix City Code Violation of § 23-12 for creating “an unreasonably loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise.” The listed dates of violation are March 16, 2008 and March 26, 2008. The charges were a result of neighborhood complaints of the church bells ringing every half hour on the March 16th date of violation and hourly on the March 26th date of violation.At all times, the neighbors complained the bells were ringing at a high volume. Though the complaints list a single date, we do that for legal reasons, but the neighbors testified the ringing was ongoing and continues to this day.

    Read it here : http://www.keytlaw.com/blog/2009/09/phoenix-church-bells/

    If I were a cigarette smoke, my right to smoke end where the non-smoker’s nose begins. There are laws which support this idea by banning cigarette smoking in restaurants, office buildings and other places.

    The rights of Muslims to broadcast calls to prayer end where the non-Muslim’s ear begins. In a modern day world, there is no valid reason to broadcast these calls which forcefully imposes this aspect of Muslim culture upon non-believers, aka, “Kafirs”.

    The will of the majority was exercised when they cast their votes. The system is working as designed. Be glad.

    Under Islam, dissenting opinion would not be allowed. Muslims do not want Western civilizations to quote the Qur’an to prove the point about its hate-filled verses. You see, to do that is blasphemous and if they have their way, it will be punishable by law. If this were to become law. the host country will have lost a bit of freedom and now must subjugate themselves to the will of Islam.

    Under this situation, whose rights are being denied? Careful, the thought police which will be in place to enforce this law may be listening.

    Muslim countries seek blasphemy ban
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=9130749

    • Chris Says:

      Near as I’m aware, the term kafir is a South African term used to describe blacks. It’s roughly the equivalent of “nigger”.

      Also, the minarets that do exist in Switzerland don’t do the call to prayers, so there goes that argument.

      • Ben Says:

        Kafir.. well not quite.

        In the Islamic doctrinal sense, the term refers to a person who does not recognize God (Allah) or the prophethood of Muhammad (i.e., any non-Muslim) or who hides, denies, or covers the “truth”. The Quran also uses the word for Muslims; in Sura 2 Verse 256, it asks them to take upon themselves the action of “Kofr” of all unjust idols, persons or powers.

        It is usually translated into English as “unbeliever”, “ungrateful” or “obliterator.” In recent times, the term is seen as derogatory, which is why some Muslim scholars discourage its use and suggest the term “non-Muslim” instead.

  7. Ben Says:

    If you understood Islam and its overt goal, then maybe your point of view would change. Islam isn’t a religion; it’s an ideology.

    The Muslim Brotherhood is an affiliation of at least 70 Islamist organizations around the world, all tracing their heritage to the original cell, founded in Egypt in 1928. Its credo: “Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Quran is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.” Sayyid Qutb, hanged by the Egyptian government in 1966 as a revolutionary, remains its ideological godfather. His best-known work, Milestones, calls for Muslims to wage violent holy war until Islamic law governs the entire world.

    Outside of Egypt, the group’s political activity has been described as evolving away from modernism and reformism towards a more traditional, “rightist conservative” stance. For example, the Muslim Brotherhood party in Kuwait opposes suffrage for women.

    Among the Brotherhood’s more influential members was Sayyid Qutb. Qutb was the author of one of Islamism’s most important books, Milestones, which called for the restoration of Islam by re-establishing the Sharia and by using “physical power and Jihad for abolishing the organizations and authorities of the Jahili system,” which he believed to include the entire Muslim world.

    source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood#Muslim_Brotherhood.27s_brief_response_to_criticism

    The Dutch and Danes are looking into minaret bans too. They must also be just as stupid.

    If you look into it – maybe you have already – you will read that there has been a term coined by Europeans to describe the on-going immigration of Muslims. They now refer to their continent as Eurabia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurabia)

    Some call European’s alarm as “Islamophobic” which is an unfortunate term against those concerned with preserving their own identities and cultural values. Their concern is born from observing the nature of the advance of the population across Europe. Where ever they make a concentrated populace with enough mass and political influence, they begin making demands for Sharia law which effectively usurps the nation’s legal system, especially in areas of family law.

    While Switzerland is attempting to preserve itself (it is their right to do so) Great Britain has already adopted Islamic law where sharia courts have been given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases. The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence. Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

    Muslim tribunal courts started passing sharia judgments in August 2007. They have dealt with more than 100 cases that range from Muslim divorce and inheritance to nuisance neighbours.

    Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: “If it is true that these tribunals are passing binding decisions in the areas of family and criminal law, I would like to know which courts are enforcing them because I would consider such action unlawful. British law is absolute and must remain so.”

    It means that British Muslims are subject only to Sharia law which could result in fines or punishment not in line with the nation’s laws.

    A nation of two laws. What’s next?

    • Chris Says:

      I see a lot of paranoia throughout Europe and America related to Islam. I don’t see it to be any real sizable threat to Western culture and people need to get over their fear of it. It’s just another stupid religion like all others.

      • Ben Says:

        RE:It’s just another stupid religion like all others.

        While I probably see religion as a whole in the same light as you, for Islam, I make the long considered exception. It is light years away from being “like the others”.

        My challenge is to find teachings in other religions which delivers the same hate-filled messages of the Qur’an on as broad and frequent level as the Qur’an. So far, I can’t.

        For example:

        Sura 3.85:

        And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

        Lesson : No other religion other than Islam is to be accepted. By extension, no other will be tolerated.
        ——————————–
        Sura 5.51:

        O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

        Lesson : Do not befriend Jews, Christians. They are unworthy; they are unjust.

        ——————————–
        Sura 3 – Al-E-Imran (MADINA) : Verse 140

        If a wound (and killing) has touched you, be sure a similar wound (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), We give to men by turns, that Allâh may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allâh likes not the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong¬doers).

        Lesson : It instructs revenge.

        Do not confuse this with similar verses in the Old Testament such as the phrase “an eye for and eye.” which does not instruct revenge. In the Old Testament, it teaches that restitution belongs to the offender and not the offended. It teaches a person who has injured the eye of another is instructed to give his or her own eye in compensation. At the root of this principle is that one of the purposes of the law is to provide equitable retribution for an offended party. It defined and restricted the extent of retribution in the laws of the Old Testament.

        ——————————–
        Sura 8.12:

        When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

        Lesson : Behead, maim and kill disbelievers

        ——————————–
        Sura 9.123:

        O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

        Lesson : Fight against disbelievers (non-Muslims); Regard them as evil and unworthy of kindness.

        ——————————–

        Before throwing out terms like “intolerant”, “paranoia”, “lack of civilization”, etc, at least attempt get a better insight into what the people of Switzerland are concerned over. Put yourself in their shoes. Read the Qur’an and reflect on the actions of radicalized Muslims who use its teachings to justify their actions.

        Just as Major Hasan of Fort Hood, who stood on a desk as he shot his fellow servicemen in their backs while shouting “Allah Akbar!”, lived quietly and unassuming in America, they can also be living is Switzerland or Britain or Ireland or Denmark and they will be reading the same Qur’an as Major Hasan.

        Look at it another way; there are easily 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. If .05 percent of them are radicalized as some suggest, that amounts to an army of 80,000,000. Too large? Still too large? Let’s go for .001%. That’s 1, 600,000. China’s army has the worlds largest standing force of 2.25 million members.

        Some estimate there are 100,000,000 million radicalized Muslims in the world today.

        In this video, you will see and read the teaching of an Islamic Imam. From the polished production of thevideo, it appears to be getting the same level of funding as say, America’s 700 Club, which broadcasts weekly on cable channels. I have stumbled upon it from time to time and I can assure you, they preach nothing remotely close in content as this Imam. The closest thing I have ever seen in America are the broadcasts of Louis Farrakhan.

  8. Ben Says:

    From allacademic

    The abstract from a report titled: The Enemy Within: The Increasing Radicalization of European Muslims in a Comparative Perspective — Motives and Processes

    One of the security threats to the United States on the horizon does not stem from the Middle East or Asia but the possible threat of European Jihadism. Europe?s Muslims have become increasingly radicalized in recent years, spreading suicidal attacks to European urban centers, transportation, and spilling over into a growing community of European converts to the Islamic faith.The paper asks the following questions: why have European Muslims been radicalized? Have the European countries failed to adequately integrate their minority populations or is there an undercurrent of anti immigrant/isolationist sentiment that pervades attitudes, policies, and domestic institutions? There is an estimated 25 million Muslims in Europe, 5% of the total population — whose numbers will double by 2025, due to immigration and higher fertility rates. Should Turkey join the European Union, there will be a total of 90 million Muslims in Europe, or 15% of Europe?s total population. The three largest Muslim communities in Europe are in France (4.5 million, 7%), Germany (3 million, 3%+) and the United Kingdom (1.6 million, 3%-), with ethnic majorities of Algerians, Turks and Pakistanis densely populated in Northern Europe. The estimated percentage of Islamic radicals is no more than 2% of the total and the majority of European Muslims disapprove of fundamentalism and terrorism. However this small radicalized minority poses serious problems, not only to American, European and global security, but also challenges the prospects of minority integration and inter-religious social cohesion through out Europe. In contrast to existing domestic policies, what is the role played by charismatic radical preachers that have served as hubs for recruitment? Tellingly, why are converts increasingly volunteering for Jihad in Iraq?This paper will test the two possible explanations for Euro-Muslim radicalization: failure of integration versus social alienation and racial biases against minorities using quantitative data to assess and contrast Muslim integration in their societies (e.g., Political integration, representation, citizenship laws; Economic integration, affirmative action policies; Social integration, spatial distribution of population, housing policies).

  9. Chris Says:

    Ok, this is likely the last reply I’ll leave on this issue.

    First, thanks for clearing up the “kafir” thing. The term I was thinking of was “kaffir”.

    Second, you want hate-filled ideology? Check out my Bible Project. I’m only up to the start of Judges and I can tell you first-hand that it’s an unpleasant book. Sure, many Christian denominations say that the Old Testament doesn’t really count, but not all do, and the Jews still think it’s relevant. Also, didn’t Jesus say something about bringing the sword?

    The Swiss erred big-time with this vote. The only way to justify it is to ban the construction of all religious items, not just the ones that majority don’t like (tyrany of the majority and all that).

    I’d be happy to see Islam end up on the ash-heap of history, but I’d be really happy to see it joined by Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and all the other things that tell people the world isn’t as it actually is and expects them to believe it.

    • Ben Says:

      RE: Kafir thing
      No problem

      RE:Second, you want hate-filled ideology? Check out my Bible Project. I’m only up to the start of Judges…

      Yes, I know, but the difference is there isn’t an organized and devout group of followers of the Bible who are getting a consistent message and who look upon non-Christians with disdain and to the degree where they act violently against them while shouting “Praise Jesus” after having sought the support of preachers, fathers or bishops to justify their actions.

      The difference is significant and conspicuously stands out from the rest.

  10. Arstens Says:

    Well, there was a time, the whole world had great respect for Switzerland and Swiss people. The sense of neutralism, among highest qualities of education, and high life standards. On top of that the bank secrecy, coservatism, and extra discipline, made Switzerland outstanding world wide, and many wealthy and rich people invested their mony at swiss bank and some even decided to live there.
    BUT
    Overtime, specially the new Swiss generation, became arrogant, self-centered, and somehow “self brain-washed” that they are the best, smartest, highest educated people on earth!
    Well, just a friendly reminder: It was and STILL is OUR money at your banks, that made you become what you are today. Without OUR funds flows at your banks you would be nothing and would have nothing in your economy that would differentiate you from any country without sufficient goods to export.
    Instead of building on the “foreign funds investment” at your bank, knowing that some of the funds are coming from Arab and muslim countries, you pull your arrogance strings!
    Well, this was just a reminder!
    Dont be surprised, when rich people these days do not want to move their funds to Switzerland as much as they did in the past…. what do you give them in return? arrogance? No, thank you!


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